Champion of the Underdog with Marilyn Lin

Marilyn Lin
There’s so much stigma around is talking about mental health. And I think it’s really important, especially being a leader to be able to give that open space for others to not necessarily share but just know that it’s okay. It’s okay to not feel good today. And if you need to take a break, go and take a break and I think it’s important to to share and let others know let others know that it’s ok.

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Voice INsert
Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Hello and welcome to Voices of Athena, a podcast highlighting the personal stories of some of the most successful women in business. I’m your host, Priscilla Brenenstuhl. Today we have the pleasure of talking with Marilyn Lin. She is the current Vice President of Global Customer Support at Delphix. She was ranked #1 Top 100 HERoes Women Future Leaders by INvolve & Yahoo!Finance in 2021. And most importantly (like most of our guests) she is a mother, daughter, wife, sister, friend and in this episode we will learn why she is a champion of the underdog.

Marilyn Lin
Hello. Hi Priscilla. Nice to meet you.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl Hi, Marilyn. Pleasure is mine. We’re both in red. Are we?

Marilyn Lin
It looks like it. Yeah. I love it.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I love red is such a power color no matter who’s wearing it. Hmm.

Marilyn Lin
this is my first podcast interview. So ever, ever, ever. Yes. I’ve done webinars. I’ve done live sessions, Article interviews, but never podcast interview. So surprisingly, I was like a little nervous. Not knowing what to expect, I guess.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Sure. Sure. Well, it’ll be I just like a conversation, and it’ll be just a little different break from your day. Hopefully, hopefully, it’ll just be a nice time to reflect and to share a little bit about you. And I did have one other woman who was her first. And her husband, she told me, her husband actually had Linda meddler. It’s on one of the podcast episodes. She’s a one star general. She has a very interesting background. And she said, I’d only do it for you, Priscilla. But But 10 minutes before this, I was hemming and hawing around in the kitchen, and my husband was like, laying back just go upstairs because she was so like, hesitant to do it. And she said, what, what do people want to hear about for me? And she shared that with me at the end of the interview. And there, you know, two things that happen. One, she said that actually, it wasn’t so bad. And number two, she actually had the most listens out of any of the episodes that year. Go figure. Sounds happy to report that back to him. Like actually, like a lot of people want to know what’s going on? Turns out, yeah, I love that

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
So with that being said, Maryland, please, how would you introduce yourself.

Marilyn Lin
So I will start by saying that I have a I had a very international upbringing. I was born in New York, my parents are originally from Hong Kong. So they moved us there when I was young. And so I spent my childhood in Hong Kong. And as I was starting high school, my parents decided to move us to Vancouver, Canada. And that’s where I finished high school. Yes. And, you know, looking back and reflecting on that experience at first, as you can imagine being 13 year old, going and transitioning into those teenage years, joining a high school as a as the news, you know, new girl, that first year was, was tough on me and I had a rough time adjusting. And it was interesting. Even though I grew up in Hong Kong, my parents actually sent me to international school since kindergarten. So there wasn’t the language, barrier or issue. But it was just more of adjusting and fitting in to the new environment. And so for me, looking back and reflecting on that experience at the time, I definitely didn’t enjoy it and was pretty miserable for the first year trying to get adjusted. But then my second year was when I found my footing, and also found friends who had similar backgrounds as me as well with their international experience of living and growing up growing up outside of Canada. And so that helped me establish the bonds with a few of my classmates and helped me settle in. It wasn’t until I actually moved to college, and then into the working world where when I reflected back, realizing I’m so glad I had that experience. I’m so glad my parents uprooted me and gave me that opportunity, because I think I then have learned to adjust to new environments so much quicker and adapting to change so much faster. And also learning to build and establish relationships with, you know, new people. And so if you take a look at my professional history, you’ll see that I’ve been able to move and take on different roles throughout the 20 years or so now that I’ve been in the workforce. And I shifted a lot to the fact that I had this experience and I’m not afraid to jump in and go into brand new environments, walking into areas I have no prior experience or a lot of working knowledge of and knowing that it’s okay I will figure it out and there are people around who are supportive and you just you know,

Marilyn Lin
you just kind of jump in and figure it figure it out, you know, so Yeah, just, you know, just again, reflecting back at the time, I didn’t appreciate it. But as I got older, I really love the fact that I do have that international upbringing and love that I, I can be.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
a champion of outsiders.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
in viewing you what you’ve seen what you’ve done. And I remember reading that you co founded the sales force, the the Women’s Network, yes. And it really focused on intersection out naledi and issues working parents face, which even the group of working parents I know it’s isolating, it’s the outsiders, it’s, you know, feeling like you you have an extra thing that you have to juggle an extra plate or to or then everybody else, and that that can feel overwhelming and lonely. And and you your experience made you an advocate, and a champion for those people having that experience. That’s super important. Yes,

Marilyn Lin
thank you. I guess I never connected the dots that way with that experience. But as your you were sharing that with me, I yeah, I can see how that all all fits in. And maybe I do tend to gravitate towards helping the underdogs. Because yes, having had the experience of feeling like an outsider, right, that I always am more mindful of those who are maybe seen as the others and also, in as you were describing, and the work environment. And in my experience, so often, now it’s better. But so often, previously, I was finding myself as the only woman in the room and the only, you know, Asian, also in the room. And it’s something that has been really interesting for me where I’ve never had hesitation speaking out and, and sharing about my representation as a woman. But then when it came to my cultural side, my race, that’s when it was a struggle. And I didn’t really realize it until more in the last few years, and especially in the height of the anti Asian hate during the pandemic, unfortunately, where that really allowed me to reflect because as I saw in the news about those incidents, it’s unfortunate, because then it brought me back to experiences I had, as I mentioned, I, you know, grew up in and in Vancouver, and just the early part of that time I had, unfortunately, I experienced incidents to myself where I was treated as the other I had racial slurs thrown at me randomly as I was just walking down the street, or comments made by others that were, you know, racist in nature, telling me to go back, you know, go back to my home country, or, you know, and at the time being younger, to reflecting like, why, you know, why are they targeting me? What did I do? Why are they storing these hurtful words. And I think as I moved into more senior level positions, and like I mentioned, the timing of the anti Asian, hey, I felt that it was really important, especially as a leader on the team to step up and be vulnerable at that moment and share my own experience and speak up about it. Because during that time, especially, I needed other colleagues who, you know, look like me, who were feeling like me to know that it was okay. And that there are others, also, who are feeling just the same. And that’s, it was important to create that safe space to be able to speak openly about

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
it. Yeah, it’s important and it’s also very challenging. It’s also not something everybody like picks up and does, you know, just because you’re put in that position doesn’t make it your responsibility, even though you may feel that that calling you know, it takes an extra set of courage and determination to really make that a priority for yourself. So you know, and I think probably I mean, a little bit about my story is I use astrology as a tool, and had my son’s birth chart read is pretty much as soon as he was born. And, and we had, we have key has lit, he has gone to like six different schools, he’s lived in three different countries to different states, you know, just any seventh and every once in a while start to get really hard on myself like, this is not, you know, when we move again, I’m just like, like, he needs more structure ease and more civility, like, you know, it’s not like I’m just on a whim doing these things, a lot of most of it’s out of my control. But nevertheless, parents and moms, you know, you want to, you want to control you want to give the best life and blade down the best foundations. And when you don’t feel like you can do that it can be very disheartening. And so I’m really grateful for that as a tool for me, because told me from the beginning, you know, that he will lead a life of a lot of disruption, and he will move a lot. But that that’s part of his destiny, because he wants to, he came in with the goal of compassion. And he came in for a goal of bringing, bringing people of all walks of life together and being a spokesperson for that. So, you know, don’t try to don’t berate yourself or tried to diminish the destiny that was there even because it doesn’t look like what you’ve seen as the model path or the model way. And, and so it reminds me of just that, and I tried to like lean in. And I also tried to tell like bedtime stories around that. So that hopefully, he’ll have that understanding, even if it is difficult as he’s growing, because it’s not an easy thing to live with. And the earlier that you come to grips with, that’s your hero’s journey. Probably the sooner you’re able to showcase it with pride as you’ve done. Yeah, I

Marilyn Lin
really love that story. And I think it’s so true. I like to reflect on things. And I, I always say that every experience, whether they’re good or bad contributes to as you describe your destiny, your story. And at the time, you may not know it, right as you’re going through it. But then when you get past it, that’s when you you will at least for myself, I realized there was a reason for why I had to go through what I went through. And just looking back and in situations where whether it’s personal or professional, it’s just for me, it’s always a lesson and you get stronger from it. And you also learn so much about yourself what you are willing to do not willing to do capable of not capable of things that you you enjoy and want to do more and things that you know, are things that you don’t want to you know, have to go through again. And it’s those decision points to that help you grow. And I think it’s was really wonderful what you’re able to provide your children, your family, these experiences. And I really love how you tied it together. Because I think things do happen for a reason. And so it’s important, like you said to embrace, embrace that. And, again, like back to reflecting on what I shared. It’s not until I got older when I realized, you know, sort of the meaning behind it. And the sense of, yes, I had, maybe I had to go through that in order for me to be ready for something, you know, down the future. And what’s been interesting for me was, there were elements of things that I just suppressed, right? It was things that I just didn’t want to think about when I shared about the experiences that I had, during my early years living in Canada, it was only my immediate family who knew I didn’t even feel comfortable sharing and telling anyone including my best friend. And so then it was like carrying that for several decades and then sharing it openly with my colleagues. It was a journey for me to think through. Wow. You know, at the time, there was a reason why I did want to talk about it and share it and had just suppressed it and had not been thinking about it for so long. And then when these incidents happened, it just became so real in my face again and I felt so strongly internally that I needed to do something about it and and be able to no matter how uncomfortable it was to be able to find that strength and courage to share.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Yeah I think I don’t know, because of course, my experience is different from yours. But I think sometimes it’s coming to the terms, the recognition that yeah, this is uncomfortable to talk about. However, this provocation led me to realize that actually even not talking about it, storing it in my body has been very uncomfortable. Just because I haven’t acknowledged it, just because I haven’t expressed it. I’ve still been carrying that discomfort. And so there can be some power in naming and voicing it and acknowledging it. Yeah, I think that’s so true. Please tell me what is your greatest ambition?
Marilyn Lin
Your life experiences are ever evolving. And pivotal moments also influences the way you think, feel and view the world. So for me, my life purpose is always centered around using my skills and experiences to help others. It’s why I enjoy mentoring coaching. Why get involved in initiatives that advance DEI, and why I serve on nonprofit boards with missions that support women and youth. There’s so much that I care about and wanting to take on with my family, extended family, friends, work in society. But there’s only so much time and energy to go around. I have to remind myself that life is made up of seasons, where priorities and life circumstances change, which then changes the focus of your life purposes, depending on the phase or season you’re in. And right now, I’m in a phase of discovery again. entering into a new season, now that my kids have gotten a little older. I’m tuning into my inner voice to find my alignment and fulfillment, finding more meaning and I would have maximized my full potential to know that at the end of all this, that I’ve made a difference in this world and in the lives of others, to be a guiding light and a helping hand. And in the pursuit of happiness, remembering to look for and appreciate the wonder that each experience brings. That includes the good, the bad and the ugly.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
What excites you these days.

Marilyn Lin
I really enjoyed the two weeks I took off recently, to spend time with family, it was a really wonderful time and trip, we have been thinking about going back to Asia and visiting family that we hadn’t seen since before COVID. And it was really wonderful. It was my family, my husband, myself and the kids, my brother and his family, my parents, and my younger brother, we all travelled in and met up starting in Hong Kong, and then got to spend time see see family there, I got to catch up with some friends who still live out there. Or I also have some college friends who had moved and had been working in the area. So it was really nice to get a mix of seeing old friends and then seeing relatives as well. And getting to go back to familiar places. And just being in the environment where I grew up and getting to share with my kids especially and it wasn’t their first time to Hong Kong, but the the first time they went back, they were so young. That, you know, so they didn’t remember a lot from their first trip. So this time they’re there, they’re a little older. And I think they appreciated the experience more. And then we got to spend a couple more days out in Taiwan and Taipei. And so it was really nice to be able to get that break, kind of like away from it all. And I think it’s so important to make sure that you build in that time to get away to just switch things, you know, off and focus on, on spending time with your loved ones. And kind of enriching yourself again, like internally. And I think that that had been where it’s been so hard for so many of us. And I think it’s something that we haven’t really been able to openly talk about and share on a regular basis where I feel everyone is just so burnt out from maybe even before the pandemic but especially during the pandemic and while things have transitioned out of, of the COVID side of things, I think that there’s so much that still lingering that we carry that a lot of times I think people haven’t had the chance to provide that proper, like, time to take care of ourselves because we’re so busy taking care of others too, that I that I worry about what that means for myself for my team and I’m always encouraging the team to make sure that they are taking their time off even if they’re not traveling anywhere just to make sure that they are disconnecting getting away from from the the daily routine and making sure that they’re taking advantage of the benefits that we have sir the company focused on wellness and and wellbeing because the other thing that has just so much stigma around is talking about mental health. And I think it’s really important, especially being a leader to be able to, again, give that open space for others to not necessarily share but just know that it’s okay. It’s okay to not feel good today. And if you need to take a break, go and take a break and there are resources that are available, you know, to use and are very beneficial. But I think it’s again one of those topics that people shy away from from talking about and there’s just so much stigma around it. But I think it’s important to to share and let others know let others know that it’s ok

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
And without, you know, paraphrasing too much, because you said a lot of things. Important things. Of course, if I’m, if I’m hearing you correctly, and if I put my own kind of words to it in the moment, I would say that maybe what excites you is this like returning home to yourself, returning home to your values, returning home to where you come from returning home, to your community, and realizing all the richness and the soil of that, and honoring that the state that space not in a place of like COVID desperation, frantic, but like in a place of how do I incorporate this knowing of the need for caring for myself caring for my community? Take taking care of each other? With all the other things that say that there’s no room for that?

Yeah, yes. Excited about that, too.

Marilyn Lin
You know, again, right. Like before, being a parent, you hear about, you know, you need to put on your own oxygen mask first before you help others. And I think being, especially being a woman, being a mother, where we’re just so innately feeling like you need to go and help everyone else first, and then you’re so depleted, and, and then you don’t, you know, find the time to take care of yourself. And I, I struggle with it, too. You know, I’m, I definitely know, I recognize that there’s a need to but it’s, yeah, it’s ends up being like, I don’t end up prioritizing myself. A lot of the time. And so,

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
it’s almost impossible to do. I mean, I often reflect on you know, one of my goals in Mexico’s is building an intentional living community with families who can live together on the same kind of plot of land and then have like a communal kitchen, and you sign up to cook and share, you know, responsibilities and because it’s impossible, actually, for us to do and do well to do it all. And it’s not it’s just Yes, and you know, there were villages there were grandmothers, there were mothers, there were onsen, nieces, and all that around and just kept that. It just allow that space to breathe. And when, when you don’t have that community of support, it feels like there’s no breathing room. So I think this feeling this itch, this agitation, this overwhelm, you know, let’s call it calling on us to reimagine a new way of living and supporting each other. And, you know, I think that that’s really exciting. A lighter Oh, sorry, go ahead. Yes,

Marilyn Lin
I think that as you were describing, you know, it takes up again another saying, right, it takes a village to raise a child and I definitely feel that way to being a transplant. Having moved away from from my parents, and then now having children of my own. Yes, it’s something that now reflecting back I’m like, Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have moved so

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
definitely. What song are you singing at karaoke?
Marilyn Lin
Wow, I haven’t sang karaoke in probably a decade. Hmm. The next time I step into a karaoke bar, I’ll request unstoppable by Sia. It’s such an empowering song on days when you need a boost and anthem for female empowerment. The lyrics to this song as a good reminder that we are forced to be reckoned with, especially as of late. Many fellow working moms have reached out and expressed feeling extremely burnt out. And for some, unfortunately, it’s been made worse by toxic work cultures and unsupportive leaders. So I want to remind everyone that you are strong, invincible, unstoppable, you’ve got this

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Priscilla Brenenstuhl
will you tell me about a life changing or life

Marilyn Lin
defining moment. Feel like I can really pinpoint to anything. On the professional front, I think it would be when I was able to make my first pivot from having started my career in IT audit, and being pegged as an auditor, and finding the opportunities and carving that path for me to transition and move away from the audit world made me realize that you don’t have to pick a profession right right out of the gate, and that being the rest of your life. And when I was able to make that transition and pivot that helped reinforce for me, that as long as I had a strong foundation on a number of skills, and area area of experience, that I would able to bring those along as transferable skills into other roles. And that has allowed me to stretch and grow, especially during my time at Salesforce, where I was able to move from one role to another from one department to another. And and I think it would go back to that first time of figuring out how to get myself away from being seen and being referred to as an audit professional. And being able to extend out then a different career path for myself that is non traditional, and has been so much fun. And I love and I’m so grateful and appreciative of my previous leaders who recognize the strengths that I brought to the table and that they appreciated that I bring fresh ideas and a new perspective into the role. And we’re not afraid to bring on someone who didn’t have all the prerequisite skills and experiences for that particular role and gave me those opportunities and the chance to come in and really prove myself and to give me that space to to learn and grow. And I think if I had to think back to a pivotal moment, I think that would be it for me. And that’s where I enjoy also coaching and mentoring others who are exploring a role change. And I share my stories with them so that they know it is possible and it can be done and it’s just a matter of at that time figure Now what is that next step for you and I grew up, I go through that quite a bit over the last washy throughout my, my career journey, where I find myself thinking, and reflecting on what do I enjoy doing? What do I want to do more of, and what type of roles are out there that will fulfill me in that way, and allow me to grow and allow me to bring my skills and experience to the table as well, because I think it’s important to have different perspectives, fresh perspectives, in areas in order for teams and companies and businesses to continue to innovate and grow.

Definitely, yeah.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
And also, at least for me, you know, and you being a traveler and stuff, or somebody who’s lived in different places, I feel like, you know, growth is important and having other opportunities is important. And getting kind of stale and stagnant is like the death of us. So it’s great to have people in your corner who provide that opportunity for you to lean into your passions and, and uncover more and more things about yourself along the way. We do have just shot a tiny bit more time, and I’ll see if this is a quick answer for you. And if it’s not, then we’ll just close out. But I did have one more question on the sheet. And it is,

what is your biggest fear?

Marilyn Lin
My biggest fear, oh, gosh, I actually don’t have fun. I mean, I definitely don’t gravitate towards things like jumping off a plane or going bungee jumping. But my greatest fear,maybe not a fear. But a worry that I carry is being in this stage in my life where I always feel that there is not enough time and knowing that my parents are getting older, right, and I don’t live in the same city country as I’m and always feeling that I want to be able to spend more time with them. And then on the other end, I have my kids are growing up really fast too. And also feeling like I don’t have enough time with them. And so it’s more of the worry of how to keep that balance. And as we were talking about earlier, also being able to find time to take care of yourself. And so I think about that order.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
It’s a tall order, isn’t it? Yeah.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
important to have people like you know that and reflect that and work towards creating understanding and space and kind of a new future of work for those of us who are caretakers. Yeah, whether it’s for getting with our parents or with our children. So thank you for the work you’re doing there and advocating because I’m certainly I certainly need all the help I can get figuring that out. Myself.

Marilyn Lin
I appreciate you. Thank you Priscilla, I think you created a very comfortable space to be able to have this exchange this way and I really appreciate the time because I think it goes back to my you know, one of my answers earlier where I’m not taking time you know for myself and this really helped me kind of put me in the space to you know what you do have to start thinking about and talking out loud. And so I really enjoyed the conversation. You’ve made it fun.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Thank you so much.s

Marilyn Lin
Thank you.

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Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Thank you for tuning in and sharing your time with me. I am honored, truly. It can be lonely at the top, especially for women leaders, being in the minority. But I also think it’s because the higher up you get in your career, the more everyone assumes you have everything figured out. And the more the pressure is to have everything figured out and to know it all. But, I don’t think most people ever feel that way. To everything there is a season, especially if we are living in our fullness than there is usually a lot of uncertainty. And I think it can be a really beautiful gift to not have the answers, to embrace the unknown, and all the muck it brings to the surface. May we find as much to celebrate in our rest and our wavering as we do in our shine and our certainty. Your story is ever-evolving.

Your story matters.

I’m taking the month of June off to relocate with my family from Cape Town to Mexico, the Yucatan Peninsula. I’ll be back to share in July. Take care.

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