The Space Between with Carol Coughlin

MUSIC
Carol Coughlin
I think why is it that we can’t figure out and solutions, not or solutions, right? Because it’s so divisive, that one, one party or one group will say this is the answer. But and then the other group says something else, but the answer is really somewhere in between.

MUSIC

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Welcome to Voices of Athena a podcast highlighting the personal side of the remarkable women that make up the Athena Alliance, a learning community for executive women. I’m your host Priscilla Brenenstuhl. Today we are joined by Carol Coughlin, whose professional background boasts her role as an Independent Director, Board and Audit Committee Chair and Growth and Governance Advisor but as you know, we are here to learn what her CV won’t tell you. Let’s dive in…

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Hi Carol

Carol Coughlin
Hi, how are you today?

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I am good. I’m, I’m good. I love doing this. And you know, I talked to you several times, but it’s usually like business right? Right. Oh, I’m looking forward to getting to know Carol a little better, feeling honored.

Carol Coughlin
Thank you. Same I saw I was listening to some of your recordings, and they’re really fantastic, you’re able to bring out a side of people that, that we don’t generally get to know.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Thank you, thank you for listening. And thank you for saying that I’m, I’m really inspired by this community. And how are you this morning? It’s early for you.

Carol Coughlin
I’m an early person, I’m usually up by 530. Eastern, and her little routine, you know, I feed the dogs and take care of them. And it’s my quiet time though, because nobody else is up at that time. And so that’s my time to think and catch up on news. organize myself around what I have to get done that day. And any additional prep that I might want to do early before officially my day get started. But because I I work from home mostly and I’ve been working from home way before COVID. I’m used to the sort of no boundaries between personal and business and it fluctuates and ebbs and flows. So that’s kind of how I got started today. So Mondays are good. I like Monday. So I look forward to the week. But I also love Friday afternoons. Who doesn’t right?

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I agree to both of those sentiments. I like to hit the ground running on a Monday morning and I like I’m ready. I feel ready. But then when Friday comes I’m like okay, thank God. Right?

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
You started to a little bit you well I think I don’t know that you describe you but you definitely describe some of your habits and routines. How would you describe yourself?

Carol Coughlin
I would I would describe myself as very energetic, but an introvert about it right so I have a lot of energy to do things to explore things but I’m pretty quiet. Overall except I’m not shy. I will speak up but I’m not I don’t love being in front of a large group of people, I love one on one or small group like a board group or something. But giving a speech or something in front of, you know, a room of 500 people is not my thing. I don’t enjoy that at all. And I’m in I am very private. So talking about myself today is very hard. And is me leaning into this, really, because it is harder for some people to talk about themselves and others. So I would say that about myself, but I love growth and transformation. And I love that on a professional level and a personal level. on a professional level. I’ve done turnarounds, I’ve done a lot of growth, I love taking chaos and making order into it or taking something that isn’t working and help to make it work or being part of a team that’s starting something exciting. That’s completely crazy. And then turning it into some larger business so that I love and so if you look at everything I do, it has that kind of an aspect to it. On the personal side, I love learning new things, so and pushing myself into things that aren’t always that comfortable. I apologize for the dogs in the back.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I feel like they’re like, they’re like, I don’t know, they’re like, amen.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Carol, you said something that still resonates for me, you said, I am my energies more introverted, but I’m not shy. And I’m bringing that back because I feel like it’s such an important distinction. And probably even just because you said it, it’s like you have to defend yourself. It’s like, I’m assuming many people in your life have put that label of shy on you. Is that correct?

Carol No. Not anymore. Not anymore. When I was younger, I was very shy. And I had the benefit of doing a class like a public speaking class when I was going through high school, and it helped me to not be so shy. So I I would say I haven’t been shy for many years, nobody that really knows me would say that I’m shy. Okay, but introverted meaning I like to process things internally first, before I say something, and so on the fly, you know, that’s fine. But in front of a lot of people, I was just giving an example of, I don’t think I’d want to do a TED talk, for example. But I love you know, being in a board, even a leader in a board, I’ve been a board share, I’ve been a, you know, Chair of committees, audit committees, I have known, I’m very assertive, and nobody would say I was shy in those situations, but that’s why I made the distinction because people might think people that know me, we never say I was shy. But people that when you say you’re an introvert, they might think, Oh, well, that person shy. So I think that was the important distinction.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Absolutely, I think it gets taken for granted. And I think, you know, learning these things, and having new words and tools and ways to describe how people process information and interact is so important, because some people need more space to be able to react. And if, if other people who react kind of more spontaneously, like myself, are not careful, then we can take all the space up out of the room, and not create space and I was always kind of led that way, when I grew up, too. It’s like prompting peopleAnd I, I’ve learned over the years that I like to take up my time a little bit more, and giving other people room and space, has, in turn, actually given me room and space, to sit with my feelings to slow down my words to be able to say, Oh, wait, and go back. So I’ve, I’ve learned a lot from from that way of interacting, too. And so I was calling that out

Carol Coughlin
so as a leader, I would always my I would I would try to do is always relying on people that I felt were smarter than me and their areas of expertise. Because my role is more not the center of attention. Like I don’t need the center of attention. But I want to prop everyone else up. So as a team, we’re very effective, right? Whether that’s on a board or whether it’s, you know, in business, the whole idea of mentoring and coaching, and really bring the best out of people and figuring out like she all of these pieces of the puzzle, how do they fit together? And so my job is to figure out how do you best fit those pieces together so that you have a much bigger whole than you had individually? And so, that’s my approach in terms of, you know, how I look at leadership and, and, you know, at all levels, basically, yeah, you kind of

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
sounds like really good perspective. And, and I like the way you said, seeing all the pieces that fit together, because what I hear is in when you say that is seeing all the gaps to like, right? Yeah, yeah. And being able to, to move in on that. And I think you’d have to be reflective and observant to be able to do that if effectively and efficiently. And I’m, I’m just so sure that you do. So confident in your abilities, Carol.

Carol Coughlin
Well, you’re so sweet and kind, but I I’ve been really blessed to have some amazing mentors in my life. And so in my first turn around, I had a mentor and a CEO that was a woman. And that was in a time when there were very few women CEOs, very bold. And she was she was a mentor to me because I was a couple layers down in the organization at the time. But she I always knew she would tell me, you know, like, she would always take time to give me feedback about what she liked about what I was doing. And and that was so helpful. And in terms of you know, how I moved forward, but she was very perceptive about people. And when you got to college, and you’re taking accounting and finance and it classes, you know, I enjoyed the psychology and the sociology part. But she always put everything in perspective around people, like this person is behaving this way, because they’re going through a divorce and only thinks that I’m like, Oh my gosh, I would never have thought about that. And so she opened up the whole world of, you know, there’s more beyond the hard stuff. So the hard and the soft side of, of life. And so that has always been an really, she’s always been an important person in my life in terms of mentor and just really respect her tremendously.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Would you like to share her name? I feel like you’ve

Carol Coughlin
let’s just say it’s Barbara.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Okay. Okay, shout out to Barbara, I just feel like it’s such a great. I don’t know, it’s such a wonderful, nice thing to say about somebody and to hear about yourself, as she gave you wisdom about yourself and what you were doing, it’s really helpful to have a community tell you where you’re needed, or at least to reaffirm it. Yeah, if you don’t get that kind of feedback, it can be hard to see where you fit in, especially when you’re just starting out or younger, or you only have one piece of what you want to do, like you said, but you’re kind of missing the other, the other elements. With all of your news, reading and work and preparation. Life Course, I know, You’ve had some some professional changes this year. I’m I’m wondering, and this can be personal or professional, probably bordering on both? What is keeping you up at night?

Carol Coughlin
Well, you know, that’s interesting. I’m a really, I’m a very optimistic person. And so when things are as good or as bad as they do, at times, whether it’s at work, doing a turnaround, thinking, there’s no answer to this problem, two, you know, situation at home, I always think about that every, every problem has a solution. And it’s just keeps me what keeps me up is trying to figure it out. Right, so whether it’s a really tough problem with one of my kids, or it’s a tough problem at work, I do, my brain keeps going at night sometimes, and and not. Not a lot, right. But but there are times when so that that might keep me up at night. And I guess at a more macro level, I worry about the divisive pneus in our culture, and I worry about what we’re leaving to our kids. Right, and so that it doesn’t keep me up at night, every night. But if it concerns me, let’s just say that, you know, and so, and I think why is it that we can’t figure out and solutions, not for solutions, right? Because it’s so divisive, that one, one party or one group will say this is the answer. But and then the other group says something else, but the answer is really somewhere in between, right? You know, we got to figure it out and compromise and it’s just a lack of that going on. And so it just becomes more more visible. If you you know, the more you read, the more you see it. So that’s the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. But that being said, I sleep pretty well.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Good as you should wake up at 530 is the pillow it’s like, okay, I put the work and I’ve earned this time to shut down. Yeah, the divisiveness is a big thing for me too. And sometimes I wonder if it just because people feel more disposable. In this in the culture that we have, and in where, you know, technology has really taken over and social media and people are looking to so many people outside of their communities, their immediate communities for approval or validation. Or I feel like perhaps it becomes easier to dismiss the people closest to you. And I think it also becomes easy to dismiss people who are not who are far away right just to say, Oh, I don’t like this post, I don’t like you and kind of write somebody off and only you know, it’s I think it’s I don’t think anyone really necessarily like on Facebook and Instagram, it doesn’t do a good job of painting a whole person. Right? We all like pick and choose the sides. And so it’s like, okay, I don’t like this side of you that I’m seeing and I’ll just decide that I can dismiss the rest of you. I don’t need the rest of you because I can go outside and find validation here and i i definitely that definitely concerns me too. And especially with my children and thinking about them growing up with that kind of accessibility, because it’s not something even I grew up with. And so it’s like, how do you even prepare? And I think that’s one of the things is we’re moving so fast, like, the the culture and technology is moving so fast. It’s like, how do we keep up with the changes that are right, that is intentional? Has foresight, I mean, it’s, it’s a tall order, I think. Yeah, definitely. Um, what was your childhood like, Carol?

Carol Coughlin
So I’m the oldest of six. So it was pretty chaotic. And my father was a programmer. So he was one of the early it, people in it, when, you know, the room for it, compute, you know, the, all the computers for a company would be, you know, a lot of space, you know, significant amount of real estate and what you can do now and your phone, Raven wasn’t even capable of doing what’s on Oprah. So he was kind of a, you know, a trendsetter in that way. And my mom stayed at home with us. And if we were we did a lot of things together, you know, I we did a lot of things that I wish we could do for our kids today. Like Like say, you know, go ahead and ride your bike or outside and you know, find a friend and my mother wouldn’t see us all day we come back at the end of the day for dinner, and we always ate dinner together. And we, you know, we went to farms and picked produce and then we can them or froze them. And my father had a commercial crabbing license. So used to all go crabbing. Not all of us because he couldn’t fit us all on the boat at the same time but and leave ago we would go and catch, you know, five bushels of crabs or whatever, come back and you know, pick crabs and have crab cakes all winter. So my parents were frugal because my father had to support all of us. And and, you know, we always did things together made a lot of family trips, you know, against a people in a car. Going to, you know, driving, always driving somewhere enough flying, but it was a good childhood. It was definitely a good upbringing. It was definitely strong family connections.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I love thinking about your family of of eight. It’s not in crammed in a car. It’s not hard for me to do. We had a family of six. We were always crammed in a car to do our vacations to and this was you know, before seatbelts and

Carol Coughlin
or one seatbelt all the way across for kids. Like, oh, there

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
always be there’s like a leg here. There’s just like constant noise.

Carol Coughlin
Yes, constant chaos, constant chaos.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Maybe, now why you like to put order to things especially being the eldest. A lot of the responsibility probably just naturally fell on you for minding the younger siblings. Yep.

Carol Coughlin
I’m sure I started changing diapers when I was five. I’m pretty sure.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I haven’t recruited my son to do that. Your mom’s got something on me. Yeah, I don’t trust him at five who wants to take it off to like see in it all the time. So sometimes we’ll take it off before I’m ready to change and I’ll be like running. No. We don’t know what’s gonna be in there.

MUSIC

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
What would you say is the most daring thing you’ve ever done?

Carol Coughlin
Well, I would say daring. moving, moving to Chicago from Baltimore, having, you know, knowing like one person for a job was pretty hard, right and daring, because I, I had the opportunity to do a turn around in Chicago. So I, I moved. The CEO I mentioned before it moved me to Chicago. And it was awesome, but I moved. Just think about how cold Chicago is. I moved the week before Thanksgiving. I had the whole winter ahead of me. And I didn’t know but one person. So that was kind of daring. It turned out awesome. I loved Chicago. I built a real community there. But it was definitely daring, but on a personal side. I went whitewater rafting on on the White Nile in Uganda. And that was pretty that was pretty daring because I had done whitewater rafting with with a group right? outfitter or whatever down the Colorado River and Grand Canyon, which is amazing. Even though we’re with an outfitter, it was pretty scary at times. But this one was not as structured, if you will, you know as like the outfitter that took us down the Grand Canyon. And I had heard it was a really scary trip and that sometimes the more than you would expect that the raft flipped over. And as it turned out, it did flip over twice when I was on it. And I was under the raft both times. It was really scary the first time because I didn’t I didn’t realize I was under I just knew I couldn’t get up. And then I felt the seats and was able to get out. But it was that was an adventure for sure.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
What prompted that? do you like watersports? Did somebody else have the idea where you are like what kind of prompted the whitewater rafting,

Carol Coughlin
let’s just let’s just put the ground here for how how, what a kind of not such a great decision. So as I don’t even know how to swim. So I can swim but not very well. But I had a jacket of course, what prompted it is that we visited a relative who was based in Uganda doing AIDS research in the field. And they lived there. And we had the opportunity to go to Uganda and we did a number of things there. But my crazy cousin who lived there thought it was a great idea for us to go on this wonderful trip and he even said the boat they flip it over, you know, flips is really dangerous blah, blah, blah. But I I kind of felt I went along with it. My husband was you know, wanna you know went and oh, it’s gonna be fine. So I went because actually I do like adventure even if it scares me.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Yeah, yeah. So no regrets, huh?

Carol Coughlin
Well, no regrets because I’m alive. Number one. And number two, it actually is great cocktail conversation occasionally.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I wish you are sure. Have you been on? Have you been whitewater rafting since? No. Any swimming lessons? Well, what is your biggest fear?

Carol Coughlin
Um, I would say, Well, this is not it’s kind of a fear, but maybe more of an insecurity. But not unlike many women. I have an impostor son syndrome, right. So I’m off. You know, I if I was afraid to have this discussion today, I thought I not that interesting. You know, there’s Not that much about me that people really want to hear compared to these other amazing women in this group. But then I thought I said, Carol, you have to lean into it. Right? You have to get, you know, just go for it. But, and I’ve always pushed myself to do things that put me in a scary place, if you will, not scary, dangerous, scary, unlike

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Well sometimes..

Carol Coughlin
But scary professionally, or I’m going to grow through going through this process. So I would say that is still active enough, although I can deal with it by putting myself out there. And I won’t hesitate to put myself out there. And sometimes I’ll go, oh, my gosh, I am not qualified to do this. But I’m putting myself out there.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
What’s the worst that can happen? Right? I’ve been here before and you know, it didn’t turn out so bad. So I yeah, I just yeah, the more you the more you do it, but it doesn’t mean it just goes away. It more means you’ve learned how to manage it. You recognize that feeling? And you know how to go past it. I still think isn’t that just a shame? And maybe that’s the right word, iit probably comes from a source of shame. And just how much shame is kind of built into our, our culture and our relationships. And because imagine, imagine, like a little kid, imagine that on a little kid, like having like, an impostor syndrome, like what I’m not a person, I’m not a valuable, per, you know, contributing worthy member of society. And it’s the the thing is, is you can mentally tell yourself that you can have other people tell you that, but there’s still this overarching weight that everyone I speak to talks about. Like this thing that swept over, I’m just, you know, it fascinates me, like how it just grips. So many people

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
it’s a bummer I’m saying it for myself too. Because I know that that’s something I struggle with. I thought, you know, surely at 40 I would be a little more accepting you have to wait till I’m 80 When they finally say the old women, I don’t care what anyone thinks

Carol Coughlin
No filter

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
what song are you singing at karaoke?

Carol Coughlin
Karaoke. I don’t do karaoke. But I sing whatever I hear last, if you will, you know. And so, right now, um, I started taking guitar lessons about five years ago. And I’m learning a song drive my car because I liked the song. And so because I’m listening to it on the YouTube, I’m repeating it over and over again, that will be what I’m hearing in my head. And I’ll hear it in maybe a different way because I’m trying to think about the chords or I’m trying to think about the transitions or you know, something like that. So that’s what I’m currently listening to in my head and it’s going to vary because I love music, and an all different kinds of very eclectic. And so, US sorts of music given time

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I could catch you singing anything but do it. So But you said you do sing. So do you sing when you play the guitar or more like when you’re driving or

Carol Coughlin
when I’m driving, I would say, in the shower, if I’m listening to amuse music, I used to be a really good singer. It when I was much younger, but I don’t have a very good voice anymore, so I wouldn’t really want to sing in front of anybody. Even Happy Birthday, that’s about all you’re gonna get from me. But I love music, I love to dance. I love the beat, you know? And it could be as slow, or it could be something really fast.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Okay, what prompted the guitar lessons five years ago, that’s super cool.

Carol Coughlin
Well, I started playing ukulele before that, every once in a while my father would send all of us a check. And just out of nowhere, you know, and he’d say, buy something that, you know, nice with it. And I always wanted to buy and when to buy something that I would remember him, always. And so I bought a ukulele. I took ukulele lessons. And then my guitar teacher said, you know, I think you’re getting a little bored with this, because I was playing. Not that ukulele is boring. It’s a fun instrument. It really is. But I was. I was, uh, he thought that I would benefit by learning the guitar, which I felt was too big. At first, you know, you’re using a small instrument. And then you get this guitar, which seems gargantuan compared to that, but it really wasn’t. So it was just an evolution. And again, you know, music is really a great thing to learn. It’s using your brains, it’s doing something different. It’s relaxing. I can sing to myself while I’m playing the, you know, guitar or whatever. And so I really enjoy it. I wish I had more time to do it to play. But I have I am taking lessons so that I do stay on course, because I didn’t take lessons. I may not practice as much as I do. Sure. Now,

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
that kind of accountability. I gotta say, Carol, I would. I would love to see you play the ukulele. I love knowing that about you. It just changed something for me.

Carol Coughlin
I wanted to play the ukulele because the song Riptide I really liked that song. And so that’s why I wanted to play the ukulele and started working on that from the beginning. And it’s a fun song. Right? It’s really fast. It’s fun. It’s a little, you know, challenging if you’re a beginner. And then when I my mother had passed, I wanted to learn a Pink Floyd song, wish you were here. And so that was one of my first songs that I learned on the guitar, which again, it’s not a first turn on the guitar. But that was my kind of putting it out there that I want to challenge myself to play this song.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
I love that. Now when I see now and I see you in my I’m doing this now I’m like I’m casing this moment and my brains. When I think of your I see your name, I’m just gonna see you playing there you go. brings me so much joy.

Carol Coughlin
Fun. It is a joyful instrument. I have to admit, since I played guitar, I haven’t picked up the ukulele very much. And now I think I might just want to pick it up and tune it and because I’m sure it’s out of tune and play a couple songs that I was playing before I started the guitar.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Yeah, and who knows? You might even like, play it differently or appreciate it.

Carol Coughlin
Oh, yeah, definitely.

MUSIC

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
What do you do to cut loose?

Carol Coughlin
Um, do you mean relax and you know, like, I like to. I like to hike. That’s not necessarily cutting loose, but that’s just getting away from the every day. Busyness routines

Priscilla Brenenstuhl

Carol Coughlin
have a house up in Maine. And we went up there early October and the leaves were just beautiful. And we have a neighbor who also has a house up there. And we got together and did some hikes. And they were hikes I’d never had done before in Acadia National Park, and there’s probably a couple 100 hikes up there, you could do. So it’s hard to get to everyone. And so we, we did some that pushed, you know, in terms of, well, we’re climbing up walls and this kind of thing, and it was just really great. Because the thing about hiking is you’re in the moment, you see, you know, you’ll see wildlife, you see eautiful trees and lakes and, you know, at the top of the mountains, you just see, everything is just so beautiful. You know, or you stop and pick, you know, blueberry while blueberries on the top of the hill, you know, it’s so unstructured, right? And it’s just enjoyable and physically, it’s it’s good physically, and you know, there’s nothing like clean fresh air. So there’s so much about it. That is just beautiful. And that’s kind of what I like to do. If I you know, I definitely well, we spend time up in the summer. And we like to hike up there or kayak.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl What did you want to be when you grew up? When you were little? What? What was it you wanted to be?

Carol Coughlin
I wanted to be a cancer scientist.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Ah, very specific.

Carol Coughlin
Yeah, I wanted to saw I wanted to figure out how to cure cancer. When I was growing up, there wasn’t nearly the amount of therapies that we have today. So it was definitely a DESA. It was a lot of ways it was a death sentence, you get cancer, you know. And so I wanted to, you know, that’s what I wanted to do. I really liked science and math. And so as much as that’s what I wanted to do, it’s funny, my father would say to me, and I think in a lot of ways he he really helped forge the way for me, as a woman in business. From my father, who I never thought at the time was particularly a renaissance person, let’s say back then, right. But he he said to me, you know, Carol, I think you should think about being an accountant. He said, because, you know, there aren’t many women in business, and you’re really good at math. And, you know, he went on and on. And that was very thoughtful. And, um, I didn’t even know what an accountant was, I had to look it up, right. so, because I was a bit of a rebellious, oldest child that I was, I decided, I’m gonna go into lab science. So I had the opportunity to work over a summer in a lab as sort of an intern ship program. My uncle was, it was at a Veterans Hospital. And I worked in the lab. And I realized that summer it was a great experience and so wonderful to have that experience that I realized that summer, that’s not what I wanted to do. I needed more of being out, you know, and about with people and connecting as much and I and researches a lot of there is that aspect for sure. But also there’s a lot of, you know, reviewing and reading and trying things over and over again. And I think it was the it was that experience. Whether that was fair or not fair to give me the impression that you know what, I don’t want to do this. But that being said, when I started in accounting and finance, I was working in a hospital. I’ve always been in healthcare, because I’m really fascinated by it. See aerodynamic, it affects everybody. And I’m really fascinated by, you know, what research that’s happening in many places. So when I worked at it was an academic hospital, I would go in the research labs and talk to the docs down there about what they were doing. And I could see how things were set up. And I was super interested in that. And so I feel like in a lot of ways, I was able to marry that interest in cancer, you know, research or whatever. to, to, to combat really hard things with the my skills and abilities.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Yeah, that’s cool. I think about how you’re saying, you know, rebellious, but you knew a aspect of yourself that that wanted to be fulfilled outside of finance, as well. And yeah, you were able to, to take what you knew about yourself and what your dad knew about yourself. And well, here you are. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. My last question, Carol, please, will you tell me about a life defining or life changing moment?

Carol Coughlin
Well, this is more business than personal. I was, I was working in a in a turnaround. And I had the opportunity to take on another role as a CFO, or a much bigger company and a company that was looking to go public at that time. So I had that opportunity. On the one side, on the other side, I had the desire, because I had, I had two young kids. And I really wanted to have, I didn’t want to have a life where I was tied to a job that I knew was going to be 70 hours a week, and not see my kids where they were growing up. And I wanted a balance that would and I it wasn’t one or the other day, I wanted both. Right. I wanted a career that was meaningful, and where I can make a difference. But I also wanted to be able to spend time with my kids. So I said no. And what I wanted up doing instead was starting this consulting company that I started 15 years ago, to help work with businesses to help them with sustainable and profitable growth, and also to start looking at board opportunities. So to me from a business perspective, that was a defining moment. That really changed the course of because it got to like, in my gut some one of my friends, I was trying to get some advice. He said, What does your gut say? So my gut says, Man to take this job. It would be so cool to do this job. But my gut says don’t take it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I never had any regrets about that decision.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Is there anything else that that’s on your mind or that you would like to share?

Carol Coughlin
Um, now one of your questions when we were talking initially was who inspires me? And I thought about that, and I, I couldn’t think of one person because I’m inspired by Every day by many things, right? I mean, when I remember going over driving out west, and from here, I’m on the east coast, but out west, there’s a lot of mountains, it’s just gorgeous out west. And I thought to myself, there were people who left everything they had in a stagecoach, and went across the United States not knowing if number one, they’d survive. And number two, if they ever see anything that they left the people, the area, how amazingly inspirational that is, right. And, and, you know, there are people who make amazing lives out of nothing, or they’ve had the most devastating things happen to them and are able to turn their lives around. So you can be inspired. And I am, you know, by people, like every day, you know, I’m inspired by my kids, my son, his resilience, and how much he loves having fun, you know, and but he’s very, he’s, he’s resilient. He hits a wall, and he turns around and get something, you know, does something else. And he’s, he’s done very well, my daughter who inspires me everyday, by her perspective on life. And so, you know, there are many, many, if you look at the you don’t have to look very hard. There are many women in this community that are amazing. And so yeah, I just wanted to share that. Yeah. And that

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
makes sense. When you said about, I like how it ties into how you said about finding where how people fit together you really can see that anybody and everybody can be inspiring I think about when you said the stage coach, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought of that exact thing, Carol, that exact thing. I’m like, what, and one of the time one of the things that’s more specific is I think about people who are like on a stage coach, or like just walking, you know, an animatic lifestyle that stumble upon the Grand Canyon for the first time.

Carol Coughlin
Exactly, or the gorge, and I’m thinking how many times you’re gonna say, Oh shit right. Another, but but they have the resilience to find another way to get there. Right. So I actually thought about that as well. When I was out there. I mean,

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
imagine even it’s foggy, you don’t have road times you don’t know it’s coming, it’s foggy. And now this whole space age coach, this whole group when a fallen ahead of you, I mean, really, it’s not just how do I get around it, but like, Oh, my God, where did this come from? And, and you know, you don’t have a map. So he could be the one, you know, could be the end of the world on the other side, or just how we have so many things that have been figured out. And we constantly want to figure out more things that I think about, you know, I can that’s where some of the wander goes. But I think about the people who didn’t have like maps and road signs, and oh, yeah, there’s this, there was a story about a guy who drove, he was coming not long ago in the States. He was coming from his daughter’s birthday party, like seven years. She’s seven. And he was following GPS, he took a different route. And he drove off a bridge that was no longer and die, Carol, it was no longer in service, but there wasn’t a sign and his GPS told them to keep going straight. And he did.

Carol Coughlin
Oh my gosh, that’s horrible. But they are we are reliant so much that we don’t think anymore, right? On GPS, I used to use maps all the time, and try to figure out different ways to get places. But I feel like you know, part of our brain has atrophied by, you know, relying on a lot of these things. Absolutely. Or

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
It’s wild. And it’s so wild how quickly it’s changed because I my first road trips were via map, you know? And yeah, and just how different my kids lice will be from mine. I mean, that’s kind of wild. Well, Carol, this hour has gone by incredibly fast.

Carol Coughlin
Such a pleasure to speak with you Priscilla, always a pleasure.

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Really, truly and deeply and I’m so grateful that you leaned in even though this wasn’t on your list of things to do. I really appreciate you the again and taking the time to do this with me.

Carol Coughlin
Thank you

MUSIC

Priscilla Brenenstuhl
Thank you for sharing your time with me today. This is a bi-weekly podcast, I hope you’ll join me again in two weeks. If you are a member and would like to be featured on an episode, please reach out to me at [email protected].

Your story matters.